Jun 18 18:24:22 Hello. Jun 18 18:24:37 I've just read today's IRC log. Jun 18 18:24:45 matz: hey there matz Jun 18 18:25:04 matz: hey Jun 18 18:25:12 woa! it's been almost one year since the last time Jun 18 18:25:15 :P Jun 18 18:25:18 batsman: :o) Jun 18 18:25:24 There was interesting conversation here about Unicode. Jun 18 18:25:39 matz: have quick question for you, is there a list existing that has function lists implemented and future? Jun 18 18:25:39 I'm sorry to miss the talk. Jun 18 18:26:01 dross: pardon? Jun 18 18:26:06 I know there are the comments in the source code Jun 18 18:26:17 matz: I'm creating a little something for the Ruby public Jun 18 18:26:31 dross: you mean the C API? Jun 18 18:26:51 batsman: well.. I can read the C api and get the ruby api from it yes Jun 18 18:27:18 batsman: I still need a list of any future functions(methods) that are going to be implemented Jun 18 18:27:59 OK. I want to know the list of the methods to be implemented in the future. Jun 18 18:28:09 me too. ;-) Jun 18 18:28:31 unfortunately, I'm not a prophet. Jun 18 18:28:38 matz: heh. well you see. No offense to the rubby-doc or other sites.. Ruby documentation isnt that great Jun 18 18:28:50 probably, that's not what you want to know, though. Jun 18 18:29:19 then? Jun 18 18:29:35 matz: I'm creating a site that has api reference, classes, and full blown examples with side notes about ruby and its libraries Jun 18 18:30:12 dross: so you mean something more than RDoc documents in the source code. Jun 18 18:30:13 matz: I'm still writting the content management system(CMS) for the site though. Jun 18 18:30:39 matz: well its a website :) I guess it will resemble php.net and Sun Java api Jun 18 18:31:05 --- jfontan is now known as VaW Jun 18 18:31:24 matz: I guess making the code portable through XML and such would be great to have client programs be able to use it without viewing the site too Jun 18 18:31:33 s/and such/or such/ Jun 18 18:31:36 so does making RDoc documents available on the net satisfy you? Jun 18 18:31:48 RDoc can generate XML as well, I think. Jun 18 18:31:51 matz: not really :) Jun 18 18:32:04 tell me your idea. Jun 18 18:32:18 matz: RDocs are normally very restricted in their scope -- it's hard to get the whole picture out of them. dross wants tutorials, examples, etc Jun 18 18:32:28 matz: things specific to WEBrick are not explains well in documentation, nor SOAP(which I am currently writting a webservice for money in Ruby) Jun 18 18:32:38 batsman: I'm going to fwap you Jun 18 18:32:44 batsman: -tutorials + classes Jun 18 18:32:47 dross: why? Jun 18 18:33:03 batsman: tutorials are more like "quick n' dirty" manuals Jun 18 18:33:24 well, those are cheap tutorials, no reason why you can't make them right :P Jun 18 18:33:27 batsman: I'll spend time to write "intoduction to programming in Ruby" if I have to Jun 18 18:33:42 OK, you need to create conprehensive documentation, not just reference, right? Jun 18 18:33:46 batsman: when people read tutorials they often do not get the full picture Jun 18 18:33:50 s/need/want/ Jun 18 18:33:51 matz: correct Jun 18 18:34:06 I understand. Jun 18 18:34:15 dross: how is your site different from ruby-doc.org? Jun 18 18:34:27 gdsx: It will explain things in greater detail Jun 18 18:34:39 dross: couldn't you just contribute to ruby-doc.org? Jun 18 18:34:42 it can be a part of ruby-doc.org Jun 18 18:35:00 gdsx: no, My ideas would conflict. Besides, I have my own server Jun 18 18:35:17 gdsx: I want the documentation searchable as well Jun 18 18:35:27 dross: btw, we didn't really talk about it, but I guess it'd be ok to redistribute your contents in RPA? Jun 18 18:35:28 gdsx: for example, http://www.php.net Jun 18 18:35:49 batsman: I thought about that yes, we will have to figure something out Jun 18 18:35:51 You can help jbritt to make your idea happen on the ruby-doc.org. Jun 18 18:36:06 unless you don't like the idea Jun 18 18:36:10 matz: I don't want to :) This is fun to me Jun 18 18:36:14 dross: since good docs. is one of the goals of the RPA project... there's a lot of overlapping in that domain. RPA is just broader in scope. Jun 18 18:36:17 understand. Jun 18 18:36:21 matz: just call me insane and crazy like the rest do Jun 18 18:36:35 holy sweet matz Jun 18 18:36:39 :D Jun 18 18:36:41 no Jun 18 18:36:45 :( Jun 18 18:36:55 well in that case Jun 18 18:36:57 * pabs goes back to lurking Jun 18 18:37:06 dross's passion is one of the hackers' instinct Jun 18 18:37:08 batsman: I thought about having a client be able to download the whole thing. or even query by document Jun 18 18:37:27 matz: since you said that... don't look at history from 2 days ago Jun 18 18:37:43 s/hackers'/fun/ Jun 18 18:37:47 dross: looks like something that rpa-base could do... (and you get atomic transactions for free :) Jun 18 18:38:16 batsman: that seems to be possible. We will confer over the idea in a bit Jun 18 18:38:31 * drbrain waves to matz Jun 18 18:38:39 or ruby-doc.org can copy his content when he finished. Jun 18 18:38:45 hi, drbrain. Jun 18 18:39:02 matz: they might as well use rss feed, because the content could change alot Jun 18 18:39:10 drbrain: sorry i missed ya guys last night! what time did you get over there? Jun 18 18:39:12 matz: would it be possible to get an official statement from you saying "the ruby_1_8 is stable" or so? cause it seems the ppl from the rubyinstaller for win32 team are ignoring it :-( Jun 18 18:39:28 s/ruby_1_8/ruby_1_8 branch from CVS/ Jun 18 18:39:43 batsman: you mean the bugfixes and such? Jun 18 18:39:47 <-- randrew has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 18 18:40:02 batsman: I'm about to go berzerk about that and create my own installer for win32 if they want to be like that. Its easy Jun 18 18:40:06 dross: yeah, AFAIK they're using the 2003-12-25 sources Jun 18 18:40:12 batsman: oh yea.. Jun 18 18:40:19 I'm trying to make "ruby_1_8 to be stable". Jun 18 18:40:24 is this ok for you? Jun 18 18:40:36 batsman: well you can easily create an installer.. the best installer is Wise(i think thats the good free one) Jun 18 18:40:41 evan: a little after 6 Jun 18 18:40:46 damnit. Jun 18 18:40:49 * pabs tries to dig up his rubyconf 2k2 picture of matz Jun 18 18:40:50 or was that InstallShield.. oh bleh Jun 18 18:40:58 matz: the point is having something to convince them (they're building with old sources, and then I have to work around old bugs, fixed already in cvs...) Jun 18 18:41:02 evan: we've now translated zcomparable.rb from Ruby to C Jun 18 18:41:05 drbrain: i sent zenspider an email but SA trashed it :P Jun 18 18:41:06 mwhaha Jun 18 18:41:11 (well, we've got a bunch of type errors still) Jun 18 18:41:14 sweet jesus i'm fat in this picture Jun 18 18:41:15 drbrain: i heard! i really wanted to talk to you guys about that Jun 18 18:41:26 * evan pats pabs in the tummy. Jun 18 18:41:28 * pabs decides not to show this picture after all Jun 18 18:41:31 evan: :( Jun 18 18:41:40 seriously Jun 18 18:41:48 evan: http://www.paulduncan.org/gallery/200211-rubyconf/?im=dscf0283.jpg Jun 18 18:41:58 dross: I don't use win32, and will try to avoid it; but some of the users of the stuff I write are on win32 and I have to do stupid things like distributing the open-uri.rb from CVS with the app :( Jun 18 18:42:04 evan: and compare that to the picture of me from earlier this week: Jun 18 18:42:16 evan: http://www.paulduncan.org/?id=214 Jun 18 18:42:21 I don't want to meet the troubles. let me tell you only facts: Jun 18 18:42:24 oh yes, 2002 rubyconf, when you blew me off :P Jun 18 18:42:26 batsman: you need to create proxy support for your rpa-base Jun 18 18:42:32 evan: i blew you off? Jun 18 18:42:36 * I fixed some bugs in 1.8.1 already in the stable snapshot. Jun 18 18:42:41 dross: there IS proxy support Jun 18 18:42:49 batsman: its easy.. you connect to proxy, send CONNECT address:port http/1.1 Jun 18 18:42:53 that's zenspider in the background at the podium Jun 18 18:42:57 pabs: yeah! remember you were in seattle and we were going to go grab a beer? Jun 18 18:43:03 evan: oh yeah :/ Jun 18 18:43:05 drbrain: heheh Jun 18 18:43:05 evan: sorry! Jun 18 18:43:06 then you are connected to the proxy and can use any address Jun 18 18:43:22 pabs: yeah, whatever (bitch.) ;) Jun 18 18:43:25 * so if someone want less bugs in the interpreter, choose snapshot Jun 18 18:43:29 dross: with open-uri; but I had to work around an open-uri bug on win32 which was fixed long ago, but not in the sources they use to build Jun 18 18:43:36 evan: i was only here a couple nights, one night i saw my parents and the ohter time i was hanging out with my friend sean from oregon Jun 18 18:43:39 evan: :/ Jun 18 18:43:48 batsman: so is it release based bug? Jun 18 18:43:59 pabs: silly, i'm not hurt. i'm just pokin' fun at ya Jun 18 18:44:11 evan: alrighty Jun 18 18:44:28 pabs: but yes, you look like 0.5 * pabs in the later picture compared to the first one Jun 18 18:44:29 dross: it's a bug due to a quick fix to work around a bug that shouldn't have been there, cause it was fixed 4 months ago Jun 18 18:44:52 evan: perhaps i'll put a blue dot over myself in the first picture Jun 18 18:44:52 evan: :D Jun 18 18:44:56 hehehe Jun 18 18:45:03 evan: like tom tomorrow did for the picture of atrios on his site Jun 18 18:45:15 pabs: and a disclaimer "THIS MAN'S IDENTITY HAS BEEN HIDDEN TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT" Jun 18 18:45:25 evan: hehe Jun 18 18:45:37 * dross thinks Jun 18 18:45:43 alright i have to go do some actual work now Jun 18 18:46:01 okay, I need site design *sigh* the painful part Jun 18 18:46:16 me too. Jun 18 18:46:28 evan: see ya sucker Jun 18 18:46:51 matz: you're a ho for not coming to dc for rubyconf 2k4 Jun 18 18:46:55 matz: so do you think it would make sense for the win32 installer team to build using ruby_1_8? (I certainly do think so) Jun 18 18:46:57 adios Jun 18 18:47:18 I still want to see a good picture of a rubymine that I could colorize cartoon to put on rubymine Jun 18 18:47:24 depends on hwo they think Jun 18 18:47:48 If they enphasize "less bug"-ness, choose snapshot Jun 18 18:47:48 well, I'm still waiting for an answer to the bug report I filled 1 month ago :P Jun 18 18:48:07 if they enphasize 1.8.1 compatibility, choose the "official" relase. Jun 18 18:48:13 matz: why would I want to contribute to ruby-doc anyway. It seems so stale Jun 18 18:48:15 but so far, everybody I've talked to here thinks they should use ruby_1_8 Jun 18 18:48:23 or at least, backport bugfixes Jun 18 18:48:37 batsman: you know is theres a testing branch? Jun 18 18:48:48 I personaly think they should choose snapshot. Jun 18 18:49:17 matz: can I quote that? ;-) Jun 18 18:49:24 matz: so why do you IRC, might I ask? Jun 18 18:49:26 yes Jun 18 18:49:34 dross: for the users; genuine users need fewer entry point. Jun 18 18:49:36 thx, will certainly do so at some point Jun 18 18:49:47 why do I IRC? Jun 18 18:49:55 matz: yes but what about wasting time? :) Jun 18 18:50:15 I just wanted to talk with Tsela and others about Unicode. Jun 18 18:50:27 unfortunately, they were out already. Jun 18 18:50:31 matz: oh I see. We don't matter :P Jun 18 18:51:00 can you guys tell him something when he's back? Jun 18 18:51:01 matz: they'll come back, eventually, should we tell them? :) Jun 18 18:51:06 heh Jun 18 18:51:49 1. I believe I don't have any "prejudice" about Unicode. Jun 18 18:52:40 2. Unicode is a good thing for many cases, but I just don't want to "force" users to use that, like Python did. Jun 18 18:52:52 * jaska cheers Jun 18 18:53:16 if I did, how can users process TRON code (the codeset bigger than Unicde). Jun 18 18:53:55 I want to allow people choose their favorite internal encoding scheme, including Unicode. Jun 18 18:54:06 <-- rphillips has quit ("Leaving") Jun 18 18:54:29 then, if there's something that I haven't noticed, tell me. Jun 18 18:54:35 I'm watching IRC log. Jun 18 18:54:39 thank you. Jun 18 18:55:13 Would it be the right way to report a segfault to just paste the offending code? :P Jun 18 18:55:39 loriel: how long? :-P Jun 18 18:55:48 /.{}/ Jun 18 18:55:50 ah, mailing it to the ruby-core is convienient for me. Jun 18 18:55:55 --> hans (fugalh@166.70.37.150) has joined #ruby-lang Jun 18 18:56:08 ^ that is it, ruby 1.8.1 (2004-04-24) [x86_64-linux-gnu] Jun 18 18:56:10 is there something glade-like for fox? Jun 18 18:56:15 kk Jun 18 18:56:55 loriel: do you have to match it to something? Jun 18 18:57:05 do you mean ruby -e '/.{}/' dumps core? Jun 18 18:57:14 Yes. Jun 18 18:57:16 matz: it's on amd64 Jun 18 18:57:30 err... bah... nm Jun 18 18:57:38 right now, I have no access to ia64 machine. Jun 18 18:57:46 --> giblet (~gilbertt@offended.co.uk) has joined #ruby-lang Jun 18 18:57:55 matz: thats not ia64 Jun 18 18:58:01 matz: thats x86_64 Jun 18 18:58:10 oh, opteron. Jun 18 18:58:18 my work box is amd64 Jun 18 18:58:20 neither anyway. Jun 18 18:58:30 matz: if you send a mail to debian-amd64@lists.debian.org, they can probably get you a login somewhere Jun 18 18:58:56 perhaps, something nasty for amd64 is left in the code. Jun 18 18:59:50 matz: theres been alot of compatibility issues with software for the smd64 Jun 18 19:00:17 *amd64. Some of the ports in FreeBSD are marked broken Jun 18 19:01:07 hi matz :) Jun 18 19:01:08 I need to get a book on the differnces, I'm curious Jun 18 19:03:18 matz: so when is anonymous cvs going to be back? Jun 18 19:03:21 batsman: I'll talk to you later. have to travel Jun 18 19:03:51 drbrain drewnix_ dross Jun 18 19:03:59 cu dross Jun 18 19:04:52 cu Jun 18 19:06:14 --> rphillips (~rphillips@rphillips.developer.gentoo) has joined #ruby-lang Jun 18 19:07:23 So I reimplemented popen by pretty much adapting stuff from open3 Jun 18 19:07:38 Does anyone not like this more? http://frap.net/stuff/ruby/popen.rb Jun 18 19:08:18 currently Open3#popen3 and IO#popen are wildly different Jun 18 19:09:32 hf_: not sure if IO.popen2 is actually useful or not since you can always ignore the third return value from IO.popen3 Jun 18 19:09:52 Yeah, I just threw it in there for completeness (and because perl has it) Jun 18 19:10:13 hf_: but, yeah, it looks ok. Jun 18 19:11:54 anon CVS will be back again in a few days Jun 18 19:12:16 shugo has already set up. Jun 18 19:12:23 --> EvilCHELU (~evil@home-29003.b.astral.ro) has joined #ruby-lang Jun 18 19:12:35 he will open the filtering port on Monday, I guess. Jun 18 19:13:04 It's 2:12 am here. Jun 18 19:13:13 I'm going to go to bed. Jun 18 19:13:22 g' night people. Jun 18 19:13:33 I'm passing my hat to the bot. Jun 18 19:13:58 cu, hopefully not in 1 year time :P Jun 18 19:14:30 I'll be back (in a month or two?)